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	<title>Comments on: Twilight: An Outsider&#8217;s Perspective</title>
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	<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html</link>
	<description>Pop Culture Commentary with an Academic Slant</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:45:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-4855</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-4855</guid>
		<description>Well, i have to say that i did fall for twilight . I&#039;ve read the book three times. The first time, everything was perfect and i loved every single word of it. The second one, i wasn&#039;t very sure about Bella. And the third time, i came to the conclusion that bella is a stupid oversensitive girl, who has no self esteem, and she doesn&#039;t make the wisest decisions, and that edward is kind of a  stalker. yes i do like the parts where he protects her, and is nice with her and tells her that he loves her and all those silly things, but i also think that he is extremely overprotective, and thinks himself the best of the world. Bella on the other hand, is this teenage girl full of drama, who leaves everything for edward. Really that is just plain stupid. and she is such a slut that she loves edward and jacob at the same time, and likes to put them to fight wiht each other. really, i could never act like bella. Firts because i am not that stupid, and drama wasn&#039;t exactly ment for me, second, becasue my family and friends are very important to me to leave them just becasue of a cute boy, and third, becasue well i am cuban, and it&#039;s in my blood to not let others tell what i am supposed to do, and who i am supposed to see. Yeah, he might leave me, and i might feel sad at firts, but before he leaves i would make sure that he knows what he is leaving, and that he is not the only guy in the world, and that i don&#039;t believe in the &quot;i love you too much, so i have to leave you to protect you&quot;, please , don&#039;t be naive, and on top of that he doens&#039;t even tell her the truth when he leaves her. He told her that he din&#039;t love her anymore. If you are gonna leave , say it straight and with all the words. so yeah, this is what i think about twilight, i like it, but i don&#039;t agree with it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, i have to say that i did fall for twilight . I&#8217;ve read the book three times. The first time, everything was perfect and i loved every single word of it. The second one, i wasn&#8217;t very sure about Bella. And the third time, i came to the conclusion that bella is a stupid oversensitive girl, who has no self esteem, and she doesn&#8217;t make the wisest decisions, and that edward is kind of a  stalker. yes i do like the parts where he protects her, and is nice with her and tells her that he loves her and all those silly things, but i also think that he is extremely overprotective, and thinks himself the best of the world. Bella on the other hand, is this teenage girl full of drama, who leaves everything for edward. Really that is just plain stupid. and she is such a slut that she loves edward and jacob at the same time, and likes to put them to fight wiht each other. really, i could never act like bella. Firts because i am not that stupid, and drama wasn&#8217;t exactly ment for me, second, becasue my family and friends are very important to me to leave them just becasue of a cute boy, and third, becasue well i am cuban, and it&#8217;s in my blood to not let others tell what i am supposed to do, and who i am supposed to see. Yeah, he might leave me, and i might feel sad at firts, but before he leaves i would make sure that he knows what he is leaving, and that he is not the only guy in the world, and that i don&#8217;t believe in the &#8220;i love you too much, so i have to leave you to protect you&#8221;, please , don&#8217;t be naive, and on top of that he doens&#8217;t even tell her the truth when he leaves her. He told her that he din&#8217;t love her anymore. If you are gonna leave , say it straight and with all the words. so yeah, this is what i think about twilight, i like it, but i don&#8217;t agree with it all.</p>
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		<title>By: nugget</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-2234</link>
		<dc:creator>nugget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 08:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-2234</guid>
		<description>&lt;.&lt; The thing about Anita Blake series is...

...what used to be Vampire Slayer, has turned, as far as I can see, into Vampire Layer. XD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&lt;.&lt; The thing about Anita Blake series is&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;what used to be Vampire Slayer, has turned, as far as I can see, into Vampire Layer. XD</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-2221</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-2221</guid>
		<description>Sorry I&#039;m so late in replying--the holiday weekend consumed more of my time than I had expected.

I think Longasc&#039;s question is right on target, and that Jane is certainly getting there in terms of an explanation.

In this post, I only touched on the idea of how Edward fits the archetype of the guy who only acts like a jerk because he&#039;s a tortured soul who needs your love.  However, this is an issue I&#039;ve been worried about since long before I had ever heard of Twilight.  

So many of our ideas about relationships and romance come from the media, especially movies and advertising.  When I came to the hard-won conclusion that a jerk is usually just a jerk,  I realized that I&#039;d been had.  Yes, we all have to grow and learn from our mistakes, but I started wondering how much needless suffering occurs because of the ubiquity of this relationship model.  Of course, that still goes back to Longasc&#039;s question of why the model is so popular.  I think the idea of being so special that only you can see the good in someone, and that the person will change just for you, is inherently appealing to a lot of women.   The traditional male equivalent would probably be wanting to save and win the girl.   Dollhouse has done an unsettlingly good job of exploring how Ballard&#039;s desire to save Echo is heroic on the surface but is creepy and a little selfish when you take a closer look.

I think I’ve projected a lot of my frustration I’ve been having about media portrayal of relationships over the last several years onto Twilight.  It’s just such an extreme example of all the problematic elements I’ve been noticing:  Bella is special, but her specialness is largely defined by her effect on Edward.  Edward is rude to her at first, but it turns out it’s because he loves her, so it’s ok.  When Edward leaves Bella, she continues to pine over him until they get back together, with the message being that they just HAD to get back together because they were meant to be, so there was therefore no reason for Bella to, you know, grieve, learn her lessons, and move on.  None of this stuff is new, but there’s just so much of it in Twilight. I think the fact that Bella never seems to have to learn any lesson is the most disturbing.  She’s so special and wonderful, and if there’s anything she’s not good at, Edward or Jacob will protect her.  If she gets lonely, she doesn’t learn to deal with her loneliness and discover how to be happy on her own.  Instead, she goes and jumps off a cliff so someone will have to pay attention to her.

I’ve gone on way longer than I intended.  I’m not even sure if all this makes sense . . . it’s mostly just me typing out my own thought process as I try to pinpoint exactly what I think and how I feel about all this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I&#8217;m so late in replying&#8211;the holiday weekend consumed more of my time than I had expected.</p>
<p>I think Longasc&#8217;s question is right on target, and that Jane is certainly getting there in terms of an explanation.</p>
<p>In this post, I only touched on the idea of how Edward fits the archetype of the guy who only acts like a jerk because he&#8217;s a tortured soul who needs your love.  However, this is an issue I&#8217;ve been worried about since long before I had ever heard of Twilight.  </p>
<p>So many of our ideas about relationships and romance come from the media, especially movies and advertising.  When I came to the hard-won conclusion that a jerk is usually just a jerk,  I realized that I&#8217;d been had.  Yes, we all have to grow and learn from our mistakes, but I started wondering how much needless suffering occurs because of the ubiquity of this relationship model.  Of course, that still goes back to Longasc&#8217;s question of why the model is so popular.  I think the idea of being so special that only you can see the good in someone, and that the person will change just for you, is inherently appealing to a lot of women.   The traditional male equivalent would probably be wanting to save and win the girl.   Dollhouse has done an unsettlingly good job of exploring how Ballard&#8217;s desire to save Echo is heroic on the surface but is creepy and a little selfish when you take a closer look.</p>
<p>I think I’ve projected a lot of my frustration I’ve been having about media portrayal of relationships over the last several years onto Twilight.  It’s just such an extreme example of all the problematic elements I’ve been noticing:  Bella is special, but her specialness is largely defined by her effect on Edward.  Edward is rude to her at first, but it turns out it’s because he loves her, so it’s ok.  When Edward leaves Bella, she continues to pine over him until they get back together, with the message being that they just HAD to get back together because they were meant to be, so there was therefore no reason for Bella to, you know, grieve, learn her lessons, and move on.  None of this stuff is new, but there’s just so much of it in Twilight. I think the fact that Bella never seems to have to learn any lesson is the most disturbing.  She’s so special and wonderful, and if there’s anything she’s not good at, Edward or Jacob will protect her.  If she gets lonely, she doesn’t learn to deal with her loneliness and discover how to be happy on her own.  Instead, she goes and jumps off a cliff so someone will have to pay attention to her.</p>
<p>I’ve gone on way longer than I intended.  I’m not even sure if all this makes sense . . . it’s mostly just me typing out my own thought process as I try to pinpoint exactly what I think and how I feel about all this.</p>
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		<title>By: Dblade</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-2150</link>
		<dc:creator>Dblade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-2150</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s culture, really. I didn&#039;t see any educated women right about the potential for abuse for Lauren Hamilton&#039;s Anita Blake series, and that makes Twilight look like a walk in the park. I don&#039;t see anyone bagging on Anne Rice either. Twilight is low culture, and it&#039;s easier to bag on. Simple as that.  

No offense also, but Quinto Spock? If you want to talk about unrealistic basises for relationships, you can&#039;t get much better than that. I was actually shocked with the elevator scene because it was so out of character.  Quinto spock always seemed to me to be someone you&#039;d worry about your kid dating, since he is prone to rage, and easily provoked (that scene where kirk convinces him to give over the ship by making him angry really was painful and annoying.)
.-= Dblade´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://mmomisanthrope.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/the-11-solution/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The 11% solution&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s culture, really. I didn&#8217;t see any educated women right about the potential for abuse for Lauren Hamilton&#8217;s Anita Blake series, and that makes Twilight look like a walk in the park. I don&#8217;t see anyone bagging on Anne Rice either. Twilight is low culture, and it&#8217;s easier to bag on. Simple as that.  </p>
<p>No offense also, but Quinto Spock? If you want to talk about unrealistic basises for relationships, you can&#8217;t get much better than that. I was actually shocked with the elevator scene because it was so out of character.  Quinto spock always seemed to me to be someone you&#8217;d worry about your kid dating, since he is prone to rage, and easily provoked (that scene where kirk convinces him to give over the ship by making him angry really was painful and annoying.)<br />
<span class="cluv"> Dblade´s last blog ..<a href="http://mmomisanthrope.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/the-11-solution/">The 11% solution</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.professorbeej.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Professor Beej</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-2013</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Beej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 05:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-2013</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m most sad for those fans who have no idea why they like it, but they do.  I have a lot of students get into the mindset that &quot;because&quot; is an adequate answer.  I have to struggle to get them to dig deeper, but when I do, the lightbulb really does go on.  It&#039;s almost enough to make me want to eventually work Twilight into a themed class at some point just to get people to examine exactly why they like the things they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m most sad for those fans who have no idea why they like it, but they do.  I have a lot of students get into the mindset that &#8220;because&#8221; is an adequate answer.  I have to struggle to get them to dig deeper, but when I do, the lightbulb really does go on.  It&#8217;s almost enough to make me want to eventually work Twilight into a themed class at some point just to get people to examine exactly why they like the things they do.</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Beej</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-2012</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Beej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 05:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-2012</guid>
		<description>Gordon...don&#039;t give her ideas! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon&#8230;don&#8217;t give her ideas! <img src='http://www.professorbeej.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Professor Beej</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-2011</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Beej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 05:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-2011</guid>
		<description>I think you hit it exactly, Jane.  Whedon challenges how we expect teenagers to act, while Meyer gives in and has Bella act exactly like every other pathetic teenager infatuated with an older man would act.  Unfortunately, Bella isn&#039;t strong enough to be an Everyman character, and she cannot fill the role she tries to.  Thus, she fails, and we get Twilight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you hit it exactly, Jane.  Whedon challenges how we expect teenagers to act, while Meyer gives in and has Bella act exactly like every other pathetic teenager infatuated with an older man would act.  Unfortunately, Bella isn&#8217;t strong enough to be an Everyman character, and she cannot fill the role she tries to.  Thus, she fails, and we get Twilight.</p>
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		<title>By: We Fly Spitfires</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-1891</link>
		<dc:creator>We Fly Spitfires</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-1891</guid>
		<description>Do you make Beej wear Spock ears in bed? Cause that&#039;s just plain wrong :D
.-= We Fly Spitfires´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/WeFlySpitfires/~3/orTXXlel0qE/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Five Things That EQ2 Does Better Than WoW&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you make Beej wear Spock ears in bed? Cause that&#8217;s just plain wrong <img src='http://www.professorbeej.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
<span class="cluv"> We Fly Spitfires´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/WeFlySpitfires/~3/orTXXlel0qE/">Five Things That EQ2 Does Better Than WoW</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.professorbeej.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Mira</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-1877</link>
		<dc:creator>Mira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-1877</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s nice to see there are other people who can&#039;t find any appeal in &quot;Twilight&quot;.  And it IS obvious the only appeal are &quot;hot&quot; main characters (actors). 

Let me see... Edward Cullen is an abusive boyfriend, controlling stalker and borderline rapist. Robert Pattinson is... Eh. A regular guy, I guess. I don&#039;t mind his haircut, but I don&#039;t find him attractive at all.  

I guess there&#039;s also Jacob, who is the only semi-decent character in the book (before becoming a pedophile), but his motives and love for Bella are uninspiring and unrealistic.  In short, he didn&#039;t really make me care about the novels.  As for Taylor Lautner, the kid isn&#039;t even legal (is he?) so he didn&#039;t make the movie more enjoyable for me. 

In other words, there&#039;s nothing in the story I could care about. As for the other girls... There are only two types of &quot;Twilight&quot; fans: those who are crazy about Edward or Jacob (Robert or Taylor ) and those who have NO idea why they like the books, but continue to like them anyway.

PS- Thanks for this article! It&#039;s always nice to see there are other people who are not crazy about this &quot;phenomenon&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s nice to see there are other people who can&#8217;t find any appeal in &#8220;Twilight&#8221;.  And it IS obvious the only appeal are &#8220;hot&#8221; main characters (actors). </p>
<p>Let me see&#8230; Edward Cullen is an abusive boyfriend, controlling stalker and borderline rapist. Robert Pattinson is&#8230; Eh. A regular guy, I guess. I don&#8217;t mind his haircut, but I don&#8217;t find him attractive at all.  </p>
<p>I guess there&#8217;s also Jacob, who is the only semi-decent character in the book (before becoming a pedophile), but his motives and love for Bella are uninspiring and unrealistic.  In short, he didn&#8217;t really make me care about the novels.  As for Taylor Lautner, the kid isn&#8217;t even legal (is he?) so he didn&#8217;t make the movie more enjoyable for me. </p>
<p>In other words, there&#8217;s nothing in the story I could care about. As for the other girls&#8230; There are only two types of &#8220;Twilight&#8221; fans: those who are crazy about Edward or Jacob (Robert or Taylor ) and those who have NO idea why they like the books, but continue to like them anyway.</p>
<p>PS- Thanks for this article! It&#8217;s always nice to see there are other people who are not crazy about this &#8220;phenomenon&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: jane</title>
		<link>http://www.professorbeej.com/2009/11/twilight-an-outsiders-perspective.html/comment-page-1#comment-1876</link>
		<dc:creator>jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.professorbeej.com/?p=651#comment-1876</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s successful because it speaks the unpleasant truth.  There is power and powerlessness in sexuality.  We are all Edward when we attract, and Bella when in the thrall of another.  And we still live in an objectifying, misogynistic culture, so the unsavory choices the characters make with the power at their fingertips ring true.  

The same dynamic exists with Buffy and Angel, but unlike Myers, Whedon presents it with skill, grace, and an eye towards challenging the paradigm.  That challenge makes his material less accessible to a lot of people, because they don&#039;t see much of that kind of heroism in their own lives.
.-= jane´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://janeschair.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/briar-rose-learns-to-read/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Briar Rose Learns to Read&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s successful because it speaks the unpleasant truth.  There is power and powerlessness in sexuality.  We are all Edward when we attract, and Bella when in the thrall of another.  And we still live in an objectifying, misogynistic culture, so the unsavory choices the characters make with the power at their fingertips ring true.  </p>
<p>The same dynamic exists with Buffy and Angel, but unlike Myers, Whedon presents it with skill, grace, and an eye towards challenging the paradigm.  That challenge makes his material less accessible to a lot of people, because they don&#8217;t see much of that kind of heroism in their own lives.<br />
<span class="cluv"> jane´s last blog ..<a href="http://janeschair.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/briar-rose-learns-to-read/">Briar Rose Learns to Read</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.professorbeej.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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