While I disagree with what you say about me, you have every right to say them to me, even here. What you do not have the right to do is use profanity on my blog which I do my best to actually make readable.

I'm not going to edit it out and censor it (as I am opposed to that kind of moderation). I will however ask that you mind your language, or I will have to resort to that kind of moderation. I want a debate of ideas, not a contest of who can string together the most expletives.

I might be all the things you call me, but in the game, I do nothing that's exploitative. I might prey on players who were weaker or unable to fight back, but that is allowed. It might make me less of a nice guy than some people, but so be it. I play the game to have fun, and being able to "create" content that I feel has an impact is fun to me.

I never said it was "okay;" I said it was fun. I said that it made the game more open and interesting for me. I never said it made me a good person. However, it did serve as catharsis for me in that I was a generally happier person when I was griefing in an MMO because I was able to expel that kind of demon when I was online rather than taking out my frustration on my family and friends.

Like I said, I might be those things you called me, but if you don't mind, would you refrain from the swearing next time? I just want to talk about this stuff, and you don't sound any more in the right by using the F-word than by not. I promise.

If you did this bullshit to your own family members, they'd rightly call you out for being a fucking douchebag.

The fact that you don't personally know the strangers you're harassing doesn't suddenly make it "okay." Sorry, you're just another asshole, nothing special at all.

100% Agree!

Word! My most favorite aspect of games is the economy, and playing the "Used Car Salesman" is insanely fun! Running "legit" scams, undercutting the competition, then taking out the market. Freaking love it!

Beej, you find a good game with as much freedom as UO (and decent design), let me know, I will so hit that up with you.

Also, I think there is "legal" griefing and "illegal" griefing, which usually meant players used exploits or hacks.

"Griefers":
I also used the "guard" NPCs in Ultima Online as a trap for players, but only really careless players fell into that trap.

I would not wonder if people would thoroughly hate me and create forum posts and all that about me if I would have had a "teleport" feature like Twixt had it in CoH.

I also wonder why people have a problem with "scamming". Why should player support interfere? I just sold you a piece of crap for one million? Your problem! I just tricked you into losing something precious? Clever trick on my part, silly on yours.

Why should customer support punish me or protect you from this?

Can people not differentiate between going to the police in the real world and playing in a virtual world?

In UO you had the option to kill scammers with your axe, you could even hire bounty hunters and put a price on their heads.

I also know nobody who fell more than once for the same scam, and after getting hurt a bit, people got much more careful and well… I hardly know anyone who got "scammed" more than once!

"Exploits & Hacks":
Using exploits and hacks is a completely different matter. "Speedhacks" really pissed me off.

Sometimes there is a grey area which is mostly to blame on the developer and obvious flaws of the game mechanics, where it is hard to put the blame for abusing them on teh players.

@Wolfshead: I think it's a shame that MMO companies see griefers as customer service problems that need to be eliminated. I agree completely that it's the actual persistence of the world that makes griefing so appealing. If the world and game is going to be the same with or without me, then I will make whatever mark I can. Where in a game that allowed me to build/destroy things that mattered in the world itself, I'd likely put my energy into doing that, for good or bad, instead of focusing on individual players.

These companies have all but eliminated any sort of inconvenience that another player might cause to their fellow player. Gone are trains, unleashed mobs, attackable NPC's of your own faction — just to name a few.

Griefing is really a symptom of having not being able to change the world in any appreciable way. If more mechanics existed that let players have a meaningful impact on the world then there would probably be less griefers and more builders. There would probably be less idiocy in chat as speech seems to be one of the last frontiers that the devs have not figured out how to control.

Still I think griefers have their place. They can be outlaws, revolutionaries, troublemakers that live on the fringes of society. They present an incredible potential for making MMO gameplay immediate and gripping. But somehow we've lost that in a WoW dominated world.

Deep down most players really want to make their mark on a their virtual world. What's the point of persistency (one of the big selling point of MMOs) if we can't affect anything beyond our personal levels and gear?

@Longasc I like the security system in EVE. It's nice being able to stick to areas and know you won't get ganked (or less likely too) but that the really valuable stuff is in the dangerous areas of space. It's the perfect balance for me.